horizontal I piece required for 2-step finesse?

6/17/2013 4:10:07 AM
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horizontal I piece required for 2-step finesse?

I know this must be a stupid question, but is a horizontal orientation for the I piece required for 2-step finesse? 

With the horizontal orientation you can get the I 3 spaces from the wall on the long side (5 spaces from wall) by das'ing to it and then rotating ccw.

I seems to be indicated in places that it can be done with a vertical orientation, but I must be missing something because this seems impossible. I can das to the wall on the long side, but still it takes +2 keys to place it two spaces from the wall. That including the das is 3 key strokes. It is the same if I tap a key towards the wall on the long side three times.

6/17/2013 6:44:48 AM
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Re: horizontal I piece required for 2-step finesse?

On the long side you can cut 1 movement by rotating 180 degrees, e.g. 2 x move + 180° rotate instead of 3 x move. But it only makes sense in my opinion, if you have a 180 ° rotation key. If your I piece starts on the right side, you can teleport it to the left wall from time to time.

I wouldn't let the I piece spawn vertically unless there's also another piece that spawns vertically ( S and Z pieces ), Because if all pieces spawn above the ceiling ( not vertical ), you can stack a bit higher.

 

6/17/2013 7:02:11 AM
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Re: horizontal I piece required for 2-step finesse?

On the long side you can cut 1 movement by rotating 180 degrees, e.g. 2 x move + 180° rotate instead of 3 x move. But it only makes sense in my opinion, if you have a 180 ° rotation key. If your I piece starts on the right side, you can teleport it to the left wall from time to time.

Yes but this is still three keys (two move + 180 key), doesn't that render it no longer a 2-step finesse? 

I wouldn't let the I piece spawn vertically unless there's also another piece that spawns vertically ( S and Z pieces ), Because if all pieces spawn above the ceiling ( not vertical ), you can stack a bit higher

Fascinating. A lot of players still have the I piece oriented vertically though eh?

My setup is like this: http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1083/1w86.jpg

I'm just having trouble parting with the vertical orientation for the I. Great for hard dropping into the slots. 

6/17/2013 7:35:32 AM
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Re: horizontal I piece required for 2-step finesse?

Yes but this is still three keys (two move + 180 key), doesn't that render it no longer a 2-step finesse? 

I'd still call it 2-step finesse. With the default horizontal spawnings, you often have to move 2 times and rotate to drop a piece vertically. If this is "2 step", two move + 180 key should be "2 step" too. If you have 180 ° key and move keys on different hands, you can do this pretty much simultaneously.

  • first step: move and rotate 180 ° simultaneously
  • second step: move
6/18/2013 8:33:03 PM
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Re: horizontal I piece required for 2-step finesse?

Lorfa, see my post here: http://gewaltig.net/Forums/Thread.aspx?pageid=1&t=472~-1 I didn't consider "autorepeat to wall => 180 + move" as well as the other side's variant. That means for the I-piece, there are one position where it's better to start vertical and one where it's better to start horizontal (in the other thread, I was wrong about there being three better positions for horizontal). I'm curious how the other pieces compare. Edit: Actually, it's complicated, so I'm going to wait till I can test this stuff to find out for sure.
6/20/2013 5:03:12 AM
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Re: horizontal I piece required for 2-step finesse?


Lorfa, see my post here: http://gewaltig.net/Forums/Thread.aspx?pageid=1&t=472~-1 I didn't consider "autorepeat to wall => 180 + move" as well as the other side's variant. That means for the I-piece, there are one position where it's better to start vertical and one where it's better to start horizontal (in the other thread, I was wrong about there being three better positions for horizontal). I'm curious how the other pieces compare. Edit: Actually, it's complicated, so I'm going to wait till I can test this stuff to find out for sure.

Then I suspect that it is technically better to start vertical because there are more cases when it is useful to place the piece vertically somewhere without any rotations (not counting 180s). 

In practice though the difference might just be negligible.

6/20/2013 5:40:48 PM
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Re: horizontal I piece required for 2-step finesse?

Only the one starting position will be faster (no rotations or movements needed). For all other positions, vertical and horizontal require the same mKPT, interestingly. And that's only if you completely master all the 180 and wall kick-off tricks. Keep in mind, the horizontal starting position is still faster its respective starting position, too. Therefore, it's only better to use the vertical spawns if those starting positions are used more frequently than the horizontal ones.

I would argue that, for at least the I-piece, the horizontal start might actually be used more frequently. It is usually a good idea to build a connected and flat surface (barring maserati's opener). Placing a vertical i-piece in the center usually isn't wise unless there's already a trench for it. That's because it creates a tower that disconnects the surface into two areas. If needed to fill the trench, the same problem occurred resulting in an i-piece dependency to begin with. Both of which are undesirable. On the other hand, the middle horizontal i-piece placement comes up often at the very beginning as well as when skimming off the top when downstacking. I could be wrong about this, however.

The other thing to keep in mind is 1) what misstake said about gaining an extra row with horizontal positions and 2) the fact that the vertical positions (especially the i-piece) "stick out," which makes a player more vulnerable to topping out as the center of the field rises.

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