What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

7/21/2016 11:37:01 AM
Gravatar
Total Posts 62
つ﹏⊂

What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

My English is poor...Forgive me pls:(

Hmm..I know 14 is the best record.But why there is no one who can make 15 combos in the game?

I wonder how the game calculate for the rest of the combo time?Is there any formula to calculate it?Seto San thought the formula in HardDrop Wiki isn't exactly.By calculating,he found that when he made 7 combos,there will have 2 extra seconds.But in fact the timer has gone.He also pointed out The calculated is often wrong after 10 combos.

If the formula isn't really exactly,what's the correct formula?And what's the max combo we can do in C2?I would appreciate it if you guys can offer me an exact answer.

7/21/2016 7:19:47 PM
Gravatar
Total Posts 516

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

I wrote that part on the Tetris Wiki but I don't know the exact numbers either. My values are rough estimates by recording videos and watching them frame by frame. What I am sure is that the expanded time is linear in the number of cleared lines

BaseTime[counter] + NumberOfClearedLines * BonusTime[counter]

Or equivalently, the program code could look like that (here BaseTime2 is the time gained by a Single lineclear):

BaseTime2[counter] + (NumberOfClearedLines - 1) * BonusTime[counter]

For example if counter = 0, then BaseTime is 2.4 seconds (BaseTime2 is 3.6) and BonusTime is 1.2 seconds, so when starting a combo a Single gives 3.6 seconds combo time, a Double 4.8 seconds, a Triple 6.0 seconds and a Quadruple 7.2 seconds. Not sure if BaseTime and BonusTime are saved in an array or if they follow a mathematical formula.

With higher combo counter, BaseTime and BonusTime begin to shrink. BaseTime will become negative for higher current combo counters, which means eventually you'll lose time - even if playing at lightning speed and always clearing lines. This means, there's a theoretical highest max combo. For humans, I'd make the following assumptions to determine the highest possible combo:

  • player plays at 240 BPM (4 pieces per second)
  • player always clears lines during the combo (not clearing a line means 0.4 sec time loss)
  • player starts with 2 Tetrises (Quadruples) and makes Singles only afterwards

Players get the highest combos by stalling and accepting opponent's garbage, so clearing Singles only at the end of the combo is very likely. I would say under these assumptions, the highest possible combo is 15, maybe even 16. I'd like to know the exact formula myself. Maybe Simon can post it.

7/22/2016 10:08:02 AM
Gravatar
Total Posts 62
つ﹏⊂

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

Oh,thanks for your provide train of thought:)

Seto San used this formula(C++):

  • if(p->combo_time == 0 && clear > 0)
  • {
  •   p->combo  = 0;
  • }
  • if(clear > 0)
  • {
  •   p->combo_time += int32_t((4000.0 * std::pow(2, -float(p->combo)) - 400 ) / 4* (3+clear));/*used millisecond*/
  •   if(p->combo_time < 0)
  •   {
  •     p->combo_time = 0;
  •   }
  •   p->combo_max = std::max(++p->combo,p->combo_max);
  • }
  • else if(p->combo_time > 0)
  • {
  •   p->combo_time = std::max(0,p->combo_time -200);
  • }

And then he used BOT to test it in 300+BPM(Zetris,a game made by him and used C2 spinrules),got 18 combos as a result.I've also had a try on Zetris and found "Deduction time isn't enough".

Well,maybe I have to wait for the producers and ask them.

7/22/2016 11:48:45 AM
Jes
Gravatar
Total Posts 210

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

I don't have much of a technical argument, but i remember talking about combos with Simon just when cultris 2 came out, and as far as I remember he estimated that a 15 was maybe possible in theory (something like starting with 2 or 3 tetrisses and still playing amazing). However, my memory might be slightly faulty or things might have been changed, but of both are correct then a 15 is the highest possible, and even that is unlikely to occur.

7/22/2016 7:37:03 PM
Gravatar
Total Posts 516

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

If I understand Seto San's Zetris formula correctly, then you'll lose combo time if combo counter is 4 or higher, but you'll never lose more than 0.4 seconds for a Single lineclear. And the more lines you clear, the more time you'll lose (e.g. up to 0.6 seconds for a Triple). :)

7/23/2016 8:18:33 PM
Gravatar
Total Posts 88

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

i remember there is still timer left when a 14 combo was done.

7/23/2016 8:51:33 PM
Gravatar
Total Posts 62
つ﹏⊂

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

If I understand Seto San's Zetris formula correctly, then you'll lose combo time if combo counter is 4 or higher, but you'll never lose more than 0.4 seconds for a Single lineclear. And the more lines you clear, the more time you'll lose (e.g. up to 0.6 seconds for a Triple). :)

Thanks for your advice againwink

I asked GAP(someone else in my group) and got Seto San's formula(in math):

  • Bounstime=(4000*2^(-f)-400)*(3+c)/4 (f:combos,c:clearedLines)
  • (e.g.:Do Single lineclear at 9 combos,you will get 4000/512≈8ms(that's too little xD))
  • If Bounstime<0,let ComboTime return to zero;
  • If Bounstime>0,but didn't clear any line,choose the bigger one in "0" or "ComboTime -200ms".

And Seto San said,this formula is also written by his own feelings.But some of arguments seem still incorrect.

hmm...I should wait or ask for Simon and ask him to help correct the mistake in the formula.

7/23/2016 8:58:04 PM
Gravatar
Total Posts 62
つ﹏⊂

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

I don't have much of a technical argument, but i remember talking about combos with Simon just when cultris 2 came out, and as far as I remember he estimated that a 15 was maybe possible in theory (something like starting with 2 or 3 tetrisses and still playing amazing). However, my memory might be slightly faulty or things might have been changed, but of both are correct then a 15 is the highest possible, and even that is unlikely to occur.

Hi Jes,thanks for your ideas.Would you please contact Simon to ask him this problem?I really want to solve this problem as soon as possible.XXD

7/23/2016 9:15:26 PM
Gravatar
Total Posts 62
つ﹏⊂

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

i remember there is still timer left when a 14 combo was done.

Wow.I found Jtadore didn't clear any line at 9combos,but he still did 14combos,that could means possibly the highest combo is 15.

7/24/2016 10:05:39 AM
Gravatar
Total Posts 516

Re: What's the MAX COMBO we can do in C2

The video in question:


(Jtadore's youtube account got suspended I believe, so I think it's OK that I uploaded the video on my channel as a non-listed video)

21 lines cleared in total, starting the combo with Tetris-Double-Triple lineclears. There's been 2 piece placements where Jtadore didn't clear any line which draw around 1 second from the combo time (together with the time needed to place those pieces). Almost no time left when the combo counter was increased from 13 to 14 and a further lineclear will draw more than 1 second at that time (I'd say it's roughly a quarter of the red circle and a full circle is about 6 seconds). So, I think it wouldn't have been a 15 combo even if all piece placements cleared a line. I suppose you've got to start with at least a Tetris followed by a Triple to get a 15 combo. But 15 combos are definitely possible.

Share This Using Popular Bookmarking Services